17664 Meters of Mainland for Only $133L. Todays Score Celene Ballinger Land Bot 1, The Residents of Second Life 0.
I was passed this note card when I logged on today. Take from it what You will, But it does show anouther instance of land bots being misused and raises more questions of system bugs and lag issues. This card was created by Raver Bellow who allowed me to repost in hopes to raise more awareness of the land bot issue. Again take from it what You will.
Started off the day buying some land to help a friend it is in Gilgamesh 198,121,51. Turned out the friend didn't need the land so I set it for sale I bought it for cheap I was setting it for just a little more for a profit. The land size is 17,664. I had waited a few hours then decided to set the price lower more twards what I paid for it. I didnt' care about profit. I came to the land and clicked the land and went into changing the price. I had typed 3 numbers 133 and bam it sold for that price never clicked ok nothing. Two seconds later two noob looking avatars poped in. One named JayJay Banenco and STuck Babenco. They didn't say anything just hovered in the exact same spot as one another. I tried talking to them but nothing. So I looked up the new land owners name. It is Celene Ballinger. She is in no groups of course. So I sent her a note card as her profile says. I can provide that note card as well but below is what it says very simple.
"Gilgamesh 191,122,51 I had for sale I was changing the price and you bought it some how for 133 L Not sure how or what I didn't set it for that price."
Still no answer. About five minutes after that I was sitting in my chair by that time "on the land" and I see someone pop in. It was Celene Ballinger. So I figured she was going to help. She flew around abit. I yelled up to her said "Hello I am down here" She flew around a bit more then poofed. So at this point I am thinking ok I am scamed. I am not familar with what goes on here on the mainland I buy private sims. But I look at the profile of one of the said noobs "JayJay Babenco". And one of this persons groups is well three of them actually is Virtuosic Bytes in threee diffrent groups of it. Virtuosic Bytes Headquaters, Virtuosic Bytes Rental Group #4 and Virtuosic Bytes Rental Group #5. So I start to get curious and look up the groups and there owned by Virtouse Lilienthal. and the website is also this person. A big website for selling mainland. So of couse I start to get curious about it. Same groups same profile as the New owner of the land. So I look up other groups that "Virtouse Lilienthal" Is in. One that happens to be Arbor Project and its a big group for land buyers and sellers. And open inroll so I joined it and sent out ims trying to get help knowing this person is in this group. Here is that IM below.
[21:04] Raver Bellow: I set a pieace of land for sale. In Gilgamesh. It is 17K +. I returned to set the land for a diffrent amount an before I could finish typeing in the new numbers it sold for the first three 133L!!. Imed the person that bought it no answer sent a note card like she asked in her profile no answer. She pops into the land five minutes later flys around then poofs. Next two noobs pop in and there still here an hour later I might add just floating. the new land owner is in no groups of course. But the noobs are in the group Virtuosic Bytes. I went to there website there big into land sales. And one of the noobs Profiles says the exact same thing as the new owner of the land. Can anything be done I have filed a report and had a linden look at the what looks to be two noobs not really there hovering.
[21:07] Raver Bellow: Sorry for the spam I put this here because the owner of those groups for the land company is in this group
[21:09] Jimbo Spinnaker: All sales are final
[21:09] Jimbo Spinnaker: You can only hope they'll negotiate
[21:09] mikeD Streeter: sorry man we have all been burned
[21:09] mikeD Streeter: chances are if you drop a notecard they will let you have it back for same price minus a full months tier at that sq m
[21:10] mikeD Streeter: so 4096m might cost you 9k
[21:10] mikeD Streeter: scammers
[21:10] Harmony Deschanel: Raver IM me please
[21:10] poopmaster Oh: you should not ever make mistakes. sorry buddy
[21:11] Raver Bellow: It wasn't a mistake before I could even finish setting the price it sold
[21:11] Harmony Deschanel: I'm one of the jurists / panelists on Honorable Land Dealer Association Group ... IM me Raver ... I'll tell you what you need to do
[21:11] Raver Bellow: Ok thanksMany respoonces and no help. But very odd that right as I do this another person pops into the sim. Named "Yohan Pintens" and here is his and my convo below.
[21:09] Yohan Pintens: Hiya Raver
[21:09] Yohan Pintens: was this your land?
[21:09] You: was
[21:09] You: till I got some how screwed
[21:09] Yohan Pintens: I am guessing from the price it was listed at you made a mistake in the price
[21:09] You: nope
[21:10] You: I had it set at a price
[21:10] You: then started to change it
[21:10] You: And someone with some method bought it before I even finished setting the price up
[21:11] Yohan Pintens: well, I can guarantee you that is not possible, you see until you click the 'OK' button on the confirmation dialog none of the sales information is even sent to the server. However that doesn't really matter one way or the other. I am here because you sent my landbot (JayJay Babenco) a notecard.
[21:12] Yohan Pintens: The bad news is my bots were not the bots that purchased this parcel -- if we had I'd be selling it back to you right now for 130L
[21:12] Yohan Pintens: the really bad news is there are 5 landbots running, 4 of them will return mistakes (like we do), 1 does not. If you guessed Celene Ballinger is the one that does not you would be correct.
[21:13] You: Well if you are part of that I guess I might be miss understanding but why can't you pay me back or just pay me an amount that is agreeable
[21:13] You: dosn't have to be the ful
[21:13] Yohan Pintens: let me clarify again, my bots nor I purchased this parcel from you
[21:14] You: gotcha
[21:14] Yohan Pintens: if they had, I would return your mistake without question
[21:14] Yohan Pintens: I am only here to give information.
[21:14] You: but your avatars that were here are in the same group I don't under stand that an have the same exact profile as the person that bought
[21:14] You: the same exact profile as the person that boght
[21:14] You: bought*
[21:15] Yohan Pintens: the person that purchased was Celene Ballinger, my bots (JayJay and Stuck Babenco) are not in any was associated with Celene, infact we're not Celene fans at all.
[21:15] You: But there profiles are exact
[21:15] Yohan Pintens: no, I assure you they are not if you double check them
[21:16] Yohan Pintens: if they are, then Celene may be mimicking them, but I haven't looked at his profile lately. Last I checked it was a fake italian girl profile.
[21:16] You: Someone from this group is helping me
[21:16] Yohan Pintens: which group?
[21:17] You: Well telling me to gather info like the profiles of the avatars that were here and all this info as well as the new owners being the same
[21:17] You: No biggie
[21:17] You: I guess I am scamed
[21:17] You: But
[21:17] You: I will do something
[21:19] Yohan Pintens: not sure what use that will be, but I'm sorry to be the one to inform you that in my experience at least through Linden Lab you have no recourse. However I would definitely log a ticket in the support system or use live chat to see if anything can be done. Not likely - but for this amount of land/L$ Its well worth the effort.
[21:19] You: I have
[21:19] You: What my plan is to give this company a bad name
[21:19] You: and that group is the place to start
[21:19] You: that group is companies against this type of crap
[21:19] Yohan Pintens: which group are you speaking of?
[21:20] Yohan Pintens: and with the vat tax, unreliable service, etc, etc, etc, they already have a pretty bad name (if you're speaking of Linden Labs)
[21:20] You: Nope not linden
[21:20] You: In world
[21:20] You: SL is not the way to go with this type of ting
[21:20] You: thing*
[21:21] You: I am going to go after the people that have done this
[21:21] Yohan Pintens: well I wish you the best of luck, and I hope you have better success than others have had. A good place to gain some information as well as find others who have had the same thing happen would be here: http://www.your2ndplace.com/node/615
[21:21] You: And I hate to say it but your bot or what ever it may be I am not familar with this had the exact profile as this owner I have taken screen shots put this all in notecards
[21:21] You: I buy private sims
[21:22] You: this was a favor
[21:22] You: this is why I dont' buy mainland
[21:22] Yohan Pintens: Thats fine, but if you'll do yourself a favor so you don't look like an idiot, double check your facts. I have just done so and my bots have nowhere near the same profile as Celene Ballinger.
[21:22] You: I have them set
[21:23] You: from when I set the price to when your guys poped in to when SHE the new owner poped in
[21:23] You: all time lined and snapshots
[21:23] You: even had a linden here to see the two noobs
[21:23] Yohan Pintens: well as I said, good luck to ya in your battle. Wish I could be of more help.
[21:23] You: ThanksSo of course I wonder how did this person know I was screwed like this and about his bots here. he isn't in the group I sent out the mass Im the Arbor Project and he isn't in the other groups mentioned above. But yet he knows all about whats going on. And if you see above he claims ownership of the noobs. And ignors the fact that the profiles are the same as the new land owner "Celene Ballinger"
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excellent post
excellent post
Sounds like some more people need to sign the petiition...
Petition against unscrupulous landbots. 69 signatures so far.
Second Life Consultant
Somehow I got the feeling -
Somehow I got the feeling - while reading the notecard given to Sarah - that the victim of this scam may think that the Arbor Project has something to do with this land bot abuse.
In fact, it is not a group for land buyers and sellers, or at least not specifically. The Arbor Project tries to keep SL lands from being cut up in 16sqm lots full of advertising.
Most of the arbor project members actually reclaim ad land and donate it to the group to be later rejoined with other parcels, which is quite the contrary of running a land bot to purchase land that is sold too cheap (whether it be user mistake or exploit).
More information at http://blacklist.npl.com/ for those interested.
Oh, Bob, weren't you selling landbots? Maybe add that to your statement next time, puts things in a much different light, doesn't it?
ServMe Nakamura
virtualSecond CEO
Yea I would hope No one got
Yea I would hope No one got that because Arbor group is "good people". I'm a huge arbor supporter and Xerses has always run the group in a highly professional, ethical manner.
Gotta Throw It Out There
I have seen so many times when someone by accidentally set the land for sale for cheap. After a bot comes by and buys it quickly, they say it was an SL mistake. I can not say this is what just happened but it is a frequent excuse. So many people simply make a mistake but then realize their case sounds better if they say they never clicked OK.
As it was said, the information isn't sent to LL's servers until ok is hit.
Mistake or not, it's always
Mistake or not, it's always dirty to take advantage of others.
Cut 'n paste it?
I've only heard of this happening at the moment the seller enters the $ amount (correct me someone?) so would it help any if you pasted-in the entire selling price in a single action? Obviously, you'd prepare by writing it first it in a notecard or something then copying it to the clipboard.
Would that help prevent any of this crap happening to people?
Virtouse Lilienthal and the landbots :P
Johan is logging all very cheap plots for sale which he would buy. Even if he's not getting the land he'll be abled to see who was buying it.
The big website is one of the things why he's abled to.
Yohan is collecting tons of data for several purposes. Mostly statistical.
However as you have mentioned Jayjay is in my groups. Since I am european and he's from the us and is not affected by the VAT mess, he's contributing tier to my groups so I am saving a bit for the rest of the land I am owning.
I know Yohan and his bots well, they are/was big contributors to the Arbor Group and are helping out with a ton of tier there as well. Additionally I can cout them to one of the honest bot owners.
I went out of Land business since all that is too much time consuming beside work since it could be a full time job. Additionally the VAT thing gave me the last reason for getting out of this thing and asking someone from the us to cover my tier while I am still the owner.
However, I am really sorry that you got hit that bad by Celene :(
Best regards,
Virtouse Lilienthal
Something fishy here
So what now running a landbot is okay nowdays? Is that what happened in the last few weeks.
People like Virtouse finally admitting that he is not only supplying landbots, he is running one himself or more like sharing the same bed.
Sharing tier to save some VAT? Yeah okay? With a Bot owner? I could have found a better reason than that.
This practice is wrong. It is wrong for landbots to purchase land away from people at really cheap price. Also people have to be blamed too for setting price so cheap, mistake or not, just take your time when you are dealing with $500US.
A vouch for Jayjay and BOOO for Celene
As a land dealer myself, and one who has been fighting the unscrupoulous bots for quite a while (Merlin, Celene), I know all the bots that are running as I run into them myself quite often. I have had experiences with all the current bot owners and with the exception of Celene all of these are great about returning land that is mistakenly sold. I have personally seen Jayjay and the other bots owners return mistakes and have never heard of anyone who hasn't gotten land back from them when requested. Celene is another story entirely and has repeatedly ignored notecards and IM's from those who have made mistakes and often resets the land for sale very shortly after it has been snatched.
This is not the first time that an 'error' rather than a mistake has been cited as a cause, and while the majority of such things are mistakes, there have also been too many people that have reported the same time of thing happening. I myself have seen land 'jump' when setting it for sale and numerous other bugs, and I even brought this up at a Town Hall meeting in-world months ago and was told that matters were being worked on.
I don't hide the fact that I am against all landbots, however I have found that except for currently Celene, the other bot owners are honorable in the fact that they will return mistakes. There have been numerous suggestions on ways to stop this kind of thing from happening, but until Linden Labs takes responsibility to protect it's members from this kind of thing it will just continue happening. I am saddened to hear of yet another Celene attack (and it is an attack on moral principles), and from everything I know, Celene runs independently of all the other bot owners, nor have I seen an collusion between her and others.
Chaos Mohr
You said, "There have been
You said, "There have been numerous suggestions on ways to stop this kind of thing from happening..." Please tell us what they are so that we have a chance of protecting ourselves from bots.
Easiest one...
Is simply having the search database for land lag by about 5 minutes. That requires the Lindens to put in a timer that keeps land from popping up as soon as it is set for sale.
That would cut down on honest mistakes being a problem, give people time to log back in when they crash, or even when network latency/grid instability causes hiccoughs.
There have been other ideas.
Second Life Consultant