The (not so) Ethical Side of Austin Hallard's Primlands Ad Lot Dealing
Now I don't really give two shits about Austin Hallard. He's just one of many scummy mainland cutters and ad lot sellers. But as I came across two 16 meter lots of mainland cut out of a center of a sim for $1495L a piece, I couldn't help but think about how he talked about how ethical of a business person he was at the June 25th Jack Linden office hour and I had to "laugh out loud".
[13:07] Austin Hallard: I operate Primlands, a successful company which buys and sells small parcels of land, typically called
micro-parcels. My business is nothing short of 100% ethical. I am a productive member of the community and
have never broken the TOS.
As you can see to Austin ethical doesn't actually mean "ethical" like most people think of the word. Ethical means he stays within the loose laws of the TOS. It's the kind of ethical that the bad landbots who take advantage of peoples 1l listing errors live by.
[13:07] Austin Hallard: I have found most people are completely
understanding, supportive, or simply indifferent to the micro-parcel
business.
We are talking about Second Life right? I see people angry and upset about the mainland being destroyed by people like yourself all the time. It's not just some small group. It's the majority of the SL community.
There is a very small group of people behind the entire anti-ad protest (the rest are just newbies
that joined under peer pressure, many not even knowing what these people are doing). Some of the leaders of
these griefers are just people who want my land for free.
Well I guess you call the majority a small group, because when I look at the main forums, other forums, jira suggestions for stopping ad lot dealers, and all of the in world groups working to end this mainland destruction, I'm not seeing a small group. I'm seeing a lot of people. And the leaders of these griefers just want your land for free??? Oh come on now. The largest group is the arbor project run by Xerses Goff who is one of the nicest kindest people I know. He believes in a non-threatning way of handling things and I know damn well how regulated and honest that groups set up is.
[13:07] Austin Hallard: Unlike me, these protesters break the TOS
constantly. Parcel encroachment, blackmail, harassment, intimidation,
and stalking are but a few of their crimes. A common tactic of these griefers is to drop a large object or tree
over my land and then try to blackmail me into giving them the land for a lower price or for free. Of course , I
never give in to these griefers and AR them immediately. Many of these griefers have rap sheets a mile long and
should be permanently banned from SL.
[13:08] Austin Hallard: The main argument of these griefers is their
claim of extortion. There is no extortion, I can assure you. I
have never used any type of inducement to sell my parcels. I buy land and I sell land, and that is all. If
they think the price is high, they are under no obligation to buy it. Simply having a price which someone
considers high is not extortion. Extortion involves some kind of pressure or denial of an essential service,
neither of which apply to this situation. There is no extortion.
First take a look again about my comment that just going by the TOS does not equal ethical. So whoever hands out cookies and stickers for following the TOS, please pass Austin one. I also have a hard time feeling sad for you because these people are fighting back against what you do to them. You can't honestly expect people to be happy that you cut up land in their sims and set it for sale way way above average market value. $1495 for 16 meters of land is 93.43L per meter in a market where Land is starting out at around 3.6l a meter and according to Jacks Office hour this week the average is around 7l a meter. Real "ethical" pricing there. You're trying to force people to pay insane prices if they want to save their area from becoming ad lot hell. Call it whatever you would like and say whatever you would like but we all know what you are doing including you. Extortion is just a very fitting word for the way the community feels about what you are doing. Honestly what reaction are you expecting from people? You decided to become something that the majority of the community see's as wrong and unethical, and now you're mad that people are upset with your actions and the reputation you have made for yourself. The only one responsible for that, and the only one who can change that is you. Maybe you should have picked a better path in SL, then you wouldn't need to bust your ass trying to convince a Linden at his office hour that your not the scum bag that you are. So when you're jumping around sl, buying lots in nice ad free sims, cutting off edges into 16's marked several times the cost of averge mainland, and then dumping the chunk left at below what you paid, go ahead and pat yourself on the back for following the SL terms of service. Just don't confuse that with being "Ethical", because it's far from it.
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until recently he was a non-paying member
One very odd thing about Austin is: he is the only visible member of his landowners' groups and until very recently yet he himself was a non-paying member with no info on his profile. (He still blocks all of his group affiliations, and has no Picks.)
I have never had any real serious problems with him, so far. I did sell some land to him... sadly, it was group-owned land so I don't know who bought it from me before transferring it to Austin. More recently, I built a store where the main entrance opened up onto two of his parcels. (My store was on cheap near a road left over after Austin & his colleagues chopped up a 16m-32m wide roadside strip into bite sized morsels for the their own use.) He did raise the land as much as he could in an attempt to block access... happily he had already raised it pretty high so he could only go a meter or so higher, which was not high enough to be a problem for me.
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Tammy Nowotny
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Him raising the land and
Him raising the land and crap like that are the things that really get to me when he claims how "ethical" he is.
With Primland friends like Austin Hallard, who need enemas?
With Primland friends like Austin Hallard, who need enemas?
Well, I am surprised Sarah, land is soo cheap at $1495L a piece (16 sq m) which is 93 linden per meter, what a bargain!
Austin also sells at higher rates. For instance $4995L (312 linden per sq m). That is 20 USD for 3 prims.
Evidently the avatar is making money in SecondLife or he would not be doing this plot extortion. It just so happens SecondLife allows this extortion which is not addressed in the TOS, but it is fine with me, I am not going to pay for it. People are buying the plots is my guess.
Austin is well aware that his claims are a lie. No sense in explaining further. (like the following clip explained in Sarah's message)
"[13:08] Austin Hallard: The main argument of these griefers is their claim of extortion. There is no extortion, I can assure you. I have never used any type of inducement to sell my parcels. I buy land and I sell land, and that is all. If they think the price is high, they are under no obligation to buy it. Simply having a price which someone considers high is not extortion. Extortion involves some kind of pressure or denial of an essential service, neither of which apply to this situation. There is no extortion."
b/t/w Does Jack Linden care?
In English extortion is:
http://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/extortion
Main Entry: ex·tor·tion
Pronunciation: \ik-ˈstȯr-shən\
Function: noun
Date: 14th century
1: the act or practice of extorting especially money or other property; especially : the offense committed by an official engaging in such practice
2: something extorted; especially : a gross overcharge
So my build looks funny with an 8 meter high 4995L$ 16 sq m. Austin Hallard (dirt) pile smack in the center!!!! What can ya do?? I am not pleased, since it looks like I own the mess.
Shortly after the February 14th 2008 amended TOS and the clearing out of the larger ad-farms, I was working to patch my land area. ALL co operated except Austin Hallard. See chat below.
Pennycat 170, 202, 54 (0 objects on parcel.)
Monday February 18, 2008
Note, at 3:00 PST the land was at ~ 1495 linden.
Now the current cost 3.5 hours later is 4995 linden.
1st contact to this individual is copied below.
[6:27] Montelli Vantelli: Good Morning
[6:27] Montelli Vantelli: How are you/
[6:28] Montelli Vantelli: ?
[6:29] Austin Hallard: good, how are you? :)
[6:30] Austin Hallard: how may i help you?
[6:31] Montelli Vantelli: Opps sorry was getting coffee
[6:32] Montelli Vantelli: I would like to offer a decent price on a parcel ?
of land you have in Pennycat
[6:33] Austin Hallard: you sell small parcels , dont you
[6:34] Montelli Vantelli: Not currently.
[6:34] Montelli Vantelli: I had about 40 of them
[6:34] Austin Hallard: got rid of them??
[6:34] Montelli Vantelli: those were placed back into a normal sized 51w2 ?
or better lot
[6:35] Montelli Vantelli: I sold to something called Arbor group 0L$
[6:35] Montelli Vantelli: wait...
[6:35] Montelli Vantelli: ehhh I have a 448 right now
[6:36] Montelli Vantelli: that is at 8.8 linden per sq
[6:36] Austin Hallard: so whats up with pennycat? its my only spot in that ?
sim
[6:36] Montelli Vantelli: but i never sell above 9.3w
[6:38] Montelli Vantelli: Only area for my familys build..
[6:38] Austin Hallard: all my prices are firm, its in my profile, but i'll ?
listen, whats your offer?
[6:38] Montelli Vantelli: I swapped land with someone.. to clear one ?
block.
[6:39] Montelli Vantelli: 200 linden?
[6:39] Austin Hallard: good bye
[6:39] Montelli Vantelli: it is a 16 sq m
[6:39] Austin Hallard: yes it is
[6:39] Montelli Vantelli: note you had it 1495 4 hours ago
[6:39] Austin Hallard: i dont work my ass off to lose money
[6:40] Austin Hallard: yes i am currently going through my list, if theres ?
only a single spot in the sim, im marking it up
[6:40] Montelli Vantelli: now 4995
[6:40] Montelli Vantelli: but you will not sell it at all
[6:40] Montelli Vantelli: so it is a waste no?
[6:40] Austin Hallard: thats fine, its mine to do with what i choose
[6:41] Montelli Vantelli: I am forced to build around it
[6:41] Austin Hallard: sorry i have to go
[6:41] Austin Hallard: take care
[6:41] Montelli Vantelli: ok Austin
So yes, this avatar has been busting butt, and as a result, he stinks as a fellow citizen of Secondlife.
So much is cut up on the grid, thus useless.
I am sure the A.H. is out gathering more land now.
Secondlife is based on respect, and that is being taken advantage of.
My build with the A.H. mound in the middle.
Land with object rendering off. Green is my land, the tan speck belongs to the A.H.
Object rendering on, note tan speck in the middle.
The not so ethical Primlands
Austin Hallard is one the most unpleasant and sneaky extortionists out there, I would go so far as to suggest, that there maybe more to his actions than merely extorting money for land, Primlands actively cooperated with Kalyrra Heart and her Empress estates island rental business.
Primlands had 32sqm for 9995L$ in my friends protected ocean sim along with Kalyrra.
When Austin was contacted about the price he passed it to Kalyrra who immediately placed a huge tower on it, along with another she already had in the sim, making the whole area more or less unusable.
So now we see two avatars, possibly actually controlled by the same person, destroying the usage of a protected waterfront sim.
Do you see the possible connection, Renting out island land, and destroying prime mainland makes sense for the completely unscrupulous estate owner, and to pay for this destruction sell your land at 4995L$/16sqm and get some more so the mainland can never be cleared up.
Possibly the destruction of mainland is just an added bonus to Kalyrra/Austin.
However it does seem strange that Kalyrra Heart now seems to have disappeared from the mainland.
With so much attention is being payed to small plot extortion, is this to distance herself and her estate rental business from Primlands practices?
Or has she decided to try and earn her Lindens legitimately?
One thing is for sure Austin Hallard hasn't gone legit and is still trying to extort the same parcel after more than a year, because Kalyrra gave it straight back to him when she left funny old thing!
Buy estate land
I own exactly two parcels of mainland in SL for specific business reasons. I personally find no other reason to deal in mainland. If you want a large contiguous, uninterrupted parcel, you would do better to buy it from an estate company. I never understood why mainland got higher prices in the market: its laggier, the views stink, you get no support from LL, no ability to do anything about griefing, and you have to deal with people, OMG, actually being stubborn about their property rights.
While mainland slumlords like to perpetuate the myth of the estate scammer, the facts are that there are a lot of reputable estate companies out there who treat their residents very well, and provide a much higher level of service and quality experience than LL provides on the mainland.
When I joined SL, it took me a week to figure out these truths, and I haven't looked back. I left the mainland and have not regretted it.
Mainland is cheaper and more stable
1) I would rather pay $195 for a mainland sim than $295 for an estate, so, cheaper.
2) MANY estate owners either are scammers, poor landlords/managers, or simply "get bored" or run out of money for SL, and disappear. I don't like middlemen. Nothing against any of the FEW respectable estate owners out there, but I don't want the extra risk for my business going poof one day. Maybe if we had a signed RL contract where I could sue for damages from such things, but no one does that. So, Mainland it is until I can justify the premium price of owning my own estate.
As for Asstin Holetard, his virtual karmic comeuppance is overdue and will be a sight to behold.
Fact is the "few respectable
Fact is the "few respectable estate owners" tend to be so because they actually provide a much higher level of service than LL provides. What is more, because they have estate powers, they can do more about serious problems and are present to do something about it. If you have a full sim with them, many will give you estate manager power. How easily does your average SL user get help from Linden Lab? Thats a joke right?
The most well known estate owners are well known because they've been around for a long while. Anshe, Intlibber, they pay their bills every month. All in all, they offer better value, much better value, than mainland. Someone owns a mainland sim and tries renting to you, you have to be in their land group cause they can't turn over actual custody of the land to you. On the estates, they do sell you the actual land, you deed it to your group or keep in your name, and you control it.
I've never seen an estate owner scamming people for land, its really stupid to annoy the people who are paying the tier. I have seen mainland slumlords who bill themselves as 'estate owners' (prok, viking, etc) but you get no control over the land, and good luck getting help from LL if you arent the land group owner.
Really now, its rather obvious to anybody with any intellingence whats the better value, and mainland isnt it.
Estate Rental Propaganda
I'm well aware of the value of a well-managed private estate, thanks; I help run one as an EM. Even still, I won't even rent from the one I work for, not because she is a scam artist or irresponsible, but because I simply do not have the security of knowing whether or not she will be around for the long haul. I think that goes for any of the large estates, too. Any one of them could decide tomorrow to cash out and move on (maybe even from RL; people aren't immortal, ya know) for whatever reason, despite their history. Some of the names you listed don't instill me with a lot of confidence, either.
I don't have any problems with the land controls on mainland; the parcel controls work perfectly fine for me, and since I *OWN* the land, I have as much control over it as I need. I wouldn't rent from a mainland owner, either. To me, that kinda defeats the purpose.
I personally have not been burned by a bad estate owner, but I have known enough friends and others who have to know it DOES happen. Thanks, but I only deal direct with LL, and that is what I consider the "best value" for my money, whatever you consider "intelligence" notwithstanding. Thus, while you can toot the "estate rental" horn all you like, it still is a no-brainer for me that mainland is the best value, for *me*.
A Valid point.
Given what recently happened with myself and Sentience/Enlightenment, I cannot deny what you say is true - I had intended to hold on to the sims forever, but... payment issues really beat me down (thank you SO much, Paypal, for screwing me). Still, I did the best thing that I could - and Sarah Nerd took over.
So my thought on that is if the person who owns the estates is conscientious and respects the rights of the people on the estates, things can work well. Unfortunately, this does not seem to be the way that things always work. I'm not blowing my own horn here, but there was nothing to compel me to assure that the people on the simulators did not lose their land other than my own conscience. This is really a big issue, and one that should be something that Linden Lab should address for the community as a whole - they do not afford much protection for renters of estate land, and it boils down to the character of the person who pays the tier to Linden Lab.
This is usually the case, though, in an emerging area. In time, something will happen - but it is thoughtful discussion like this that will encourage it to happen more quickly. Please keep it up. :-)
Second Life Consultant
I think this speaks
to the nature of my arguments of late where "being sensitive to the needs of users" is concerned. It was never about land in and of itself, but to say that the continued focus on 'content' by itself would not remedy the issues regarding growth. There are precious few rights afforded to users. There's an ambiguous TOS (understandably ambiguous, but there's no proof of consistency) and a great deal of inaction. A problem is taken to LL and either sidestepped or 'investigated' which of course means they handle it often-inexplicable means or they don't. And if they do, it usually takes a very long time.
Honestly, I think after five years LL's continued vision to be 'limitless' is misguided and naive. Certainly limitations exist, but the limitations are swept under the rug in the murky process of Linden-decision making. They impose the imitations. The real statement should be "do anything you want and there's a possibility we won't care."
As I told someone in passing yesterday, the problem with this virtual society mirrors the problems of all virtual societies. We've been sold on this idea of the social contract, justice, and balance. I honestly don't think people know how to handle the anonymity/'freedom' LL is trying to push. Too drastic a change. No adaptive process. And the end result is it makes potential asshats out of everyone with no internal regulation to keep it in check.
Just my thoughts.
km
Anonymous 2 submits further evidence
Konner et all,
Notice the comments from a current resident above:
Quote:
"MANY estate owners either are scammers, poor landlords/managers, or simply "get bored" or run out of money for SL, and disappear. I don't like middlemen. Nothing against any of the FEW respectable estate owners out there, but I don't want the extra risk for my business going poof one day. Maybe if we had a signed RL contract where I could sue for damages from such things, but no one does that."
A cost/benefit analysis of the land baron contribution is in order I would say respectfully. Don't you think SNE, Ansche, Intlibber, Prokovy etc. ?
Anonymous2
Kind warning
Yes it is a 16sqm, as all of his are. A word of advice, make certain that you leave about that amount of room around it at all times. This guy gave me a lot of pain for a tree that was merely close to his land. This is one of the reasons I can never go to Jack's office hours, or probably any other Linden's for that matter. These people make my head explode.
build
way not just build a 4 sided tall clock around it, just make sure it is on your land
AR
You'll get abuse reported, you're not allowed to block access to people's parcels like that, even when it's obviosuly a parcel that isn't being used for any other reason than to annoy.
I think it works alright if
I think it works alright if you make the textures alpha from the inside and make the prims phantom. That way, they can look out, fly out, and you don't have to look at there nasty shit.
Clock build w/ door...
That clock tower is really not a bad idea. If one was to install a door at the base, then there would be full access to the parcel.